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Post by aurist on Jul 23, 2008 6:54:10 GMT -5
What does wi-fi have to do with anything? Personally I don't care too much about my contacts being used. However it would be nice if there was some kind of notice in the game, not on the website. I didn't even know there was a website until I randomly found the forum while trying to figure out how to play the game. I have a touch not an I-phone and therefore none of this affects me I have an iTouch as well, and I still don't get why you shouldn't be affected by the contacs-integration. Don't you use yer iTouch for contacts/mail/scheduling? If no, then I understand what you are saying, but if you do use those functions you are 100% as affected as all iPhone users. So the device, and which data carrier you utilize is a moot point... Cheerio
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jeffy
New Member
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Post by jeffy on Jul 23, 2008 6:57:42 GMT -5
Speaking professionally, I would back FAR away from the community feature at the moment. Then, re-implement it in the future after guidance from Apple, possibly an outside security company, and maybe a hacker or two to make sure it passes scrutiny. In other words, make sure it's done right the first (second?) time around. Even some larger companies like Electronic Arts have released their current apps without interaction promising that it'll be integrated at some future date, so it's not without precedent. Aurora Feint isn't the first app to do things with their access to user contact lists that were seen as questionable. www.iphonealley.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7235If it was Apple that had the app removed, then they're at this point probably regretting allowing devs access to user contacts and will be considering putting some safeguards into place (like a forced notification pop up even if the developer doesn't). Personally, I haven't used the community feature and have still enjoyed the game greatly and told others about it as well. I don't think it takes away from the core gameplay for me. I just think that right now, any app that uses contact data has the potential to put a black eye on Apple's entire idea of releasing apps through the store in the first place (the one "safe" place to obtain your applications). That's why I say that, while the community feature may be cool, it appears that it needs more than just a few weeks of consideration. Removing it until it's "perfect" might go a long way to getting back into Apple's good graces.
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Post by thejuggler on Jul 23, 2008 7:04:36 GMT -5
Danielle,
I think the best solution would be not to store the contacts as part of the game data file. Lets face it if you need the contacts, just scan the phone. If you update the contacts on the phone, you'd need to scan it to recreate your copy anyway. As a developer myself working in embedded devices, this just seems like a an unnecessary use of limited space. Not to mention that you have an un-encrypted copy of the data on the phone now. And its easy to jailbreak a phone, so this information becomes even easier to access.
As far as the community feature is concerned, I would suggest the following. When you go on-line with the game, send the unique player ID to the server. Give the user a way to find this ID from the app, and a way to enter their friends ID's. Then when you go online, the game can look at the server and see if any of the 'friends' codes you've entered are also online/playing the game, whatever you want to do.
This is pretty close to the way that the Microsoft Gamertag system works on Xbox. You need to pass no sensitive data, and only a list of ID's which don't relate to any private information will reside in the game data.
I think that would allow you what you want to do in the game, and eliminate the privacy issues that have been raised about the storing of the contacts list.
Really enjoying the game, and looking forward to seeing where you're going with it. Lets hope you can resolve the concerns and get the app back.
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Post by pusbum on Jul 23, 2008 7:10:59 GMT -5
I don't really care about this so called security issue. It would be good to see something come up and advise what is sent and how it is stored. Some form of privacy statement that the users can agree/disagree to would probably be a good way to go.
So far I love this game and it would be a great shame if it died so early. I have been hanging out for the update and already getting competitive with mates. Also the community feature is nice and easy to use and a great idea....keep up the great work.
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Post by boozemonkey on Jul 23, 2008 7:14:51 GMT -5
First - thank you for a great game and your open and forthright explanations.
I'm one of the ones in the boat where I have to re-install every time I quit the game - so for the most part I've simply been reading these forums and awaiting the update. None of my meat-life friends own iPhones so I haven't experienced any of the community features - I've only read about them here.
I found this site by searching for it - so that too was unrelated.
I find the community features exciting and look forward to their ultimate implementation - in fact I've been enjoying the Twitter community that has sprung so quickly from this game.
With those thoughts in mind - I would agree with the idea that backing away from the community aspects of the game, for the short term, would be a prudent approach.
This game is brilliant, methinks. It offers the kind of twist on the Tetris-like-concept that takes it down a completely new path. AF is quite groundbreaking from the pure game aspect of it. It is highly addictive - as a great game should be. I would suggest that people will quickly discover and fall for it, and will continue to spread word of it... as has been seen already.
Danielle, you mentioned that this feature was placed into the game toward the end of the development cycle. I would suggest pulling the feature for the short term and taking the time to implement it in a future release - that way you can ensure that you do so in a manner that is beyond reproach - also by then you'll have an even larger army of devotees behind you as you do so.
Just my $.02 - thanks again for asking.
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jeffy
New Member
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Post by jeffy on Jul 23, 2008 7:18:02 GMT -5
When you go on-line with the game, send the unique player ID to the server. Give the user a way to find this ID from the app, and a way to enter their friends ID's. Then when you go online, the game can look at the server and see if any of the 'friends' codes you've entered are also online/playing the game, whatever you want to do. Sounds a lot like Nintendo's Friend Codes as well (since there would have to be a different one for each game that goes online). Might want to look into the legal ramifications of whichever method you choose as well since, if you get big, you're likely to get sued if the authentication method you've chosen is patented or encumbered with legalities in some other way.
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Post by cyberpawz on Jul 23, 2008 7:21:00 GMT -5
I personally would rather not have the game itself hunt for my information on my iTouch, or my iPhone.... one of the many things I would like to see this program do would be to have a number that is created after you have created an account, and in doing so will allow a database probably close to the same concept as the signatures to find, record, and save your friends data.
It would work like this.
1. Install software. 2. Create Account 3. Go to Account section 4. View Account, it will show an alpha numeric number around 7-14 characters long, this is your ID. 5. Share this number with friends, when they put it into the "Friends/Group" section, this number will be looked for inside the database and your info will be uploaded to their computer, at least the last updated version.
This would be the safest and most secure way of doing it in my opinion, because you don't share email, or phone numbers, and personally I think this would make Apple happy...
Just my 2 cents and then some
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Post by aluver on Jul 23, 2008 7:30:40 GMT -5
I think that is a great idea. I personally would rather not have the game itself hunt for my information on my iTouch, or my iPhone.... one of the many things I would like to see this program do would be to have a number that is created after you have created an account, and in doing so will allow a database probably close to the same concept as the signatures to find, record, and save your friends data. It would work like this. 1. Install software. 2. Create Account 3. Go to Account section 4. View Account, it will show an alpha numeric number around 7-14 characters long, this is your ID. 5. Share this number with friends, when they put it into the "Friends/Group" section, this number will be looked for inside the database and your info will be uploaded to their computer, at least the last updated version. This would be the safest and most secure way of doing it in my opinion, because you don't share email, or phone numbers, and personally I think this would make Apple happy... Just my 2 cents and then some
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Post by heinrich on Jul 23, 2008 7:32:51 GMT -5
Danielle & Jason. Thank you for being direct, open and honest about your programme. You're trying to "showcase" Apple's new technologies as well as your own creativity. And have done an excellent job in a fantastic game. Absolutely. Many features seem not to work yet, but I'm levelling and collecting anyway Danielle, when I read your posting first, I didn't quite understand what you mean by "reading my contact list". I couldn't imagine someone would be able to read out all the adresses of my contacts... Still it is unbelievable, but seems real I will definitely not use this community feature because I want my contacts not to be submitted to whereever. Neither unencrypted nor safe. So for me, the best idea is to make the community an opt-in possibility with a detailed explanation not only how nice and easy it is but also what happens to ones data. So everyone can decide himself. I hope the App Store allows to offer two different versions. If not, drop the community! Hope to see 1.0.0.1 soon! H.
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Post by Hughdogg on Jul 23, 2008 8:40:34 GMT -5
I have a touch not an I-phone and therefore none of this affects me I have an iTouch as well, and I still don't get why you shouldn't be affected by the contacs-integration. Don't you use yer iTouch for contacts/mail/scheduling? If no, then I understand what you are saying, but if you do use those functions you are 100% as affected as all iPhone users. So the device, and which data carrier you utilize is a moot point... Cheerio no son, no i don't
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Post by lancewallen on Jul 23, 2008 8:42:11 GMT -5
I'd just pull the community feature. Remove the contact scouring all together and have the server store only the users own AF account name.
Look at it this way, if I have a friend in my contacts list playing AF I have my own way of contacting them... they're in my contacts list. It's a matter of a phone call or text message saying "Hey, I'm Kiphere on AF, add me!" no different than any other MMO on the market, you let your buddies know your game name and they contact you. This eliminates all fear or privacy issues and lets you worry about the game not the security and public opinion of your security.
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Post by alduin on Jul 23, 2008 8:44:11 GMT -5
I have a touch not an I-phone and therefore none of this affects me I have an iTouch as well, and I still don't get why you shouldn't be affected by the contacs-integration. Don't you use yer iTouch for contacts/mail/scheduling? If no, then I understand what you are saying, but if you do use those functions you are 100% as affected as all iPhone users. So the device, and which data carrier you utilize is a moot point... Cheerio ...unless you use no data carrier at all. That'd make it sorta difficult for the app to contact the servers. =) Apple Jack
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Post by dgvirus on Jul 23, 2008 8:46:03 GMT -5
To be honest it is not like we are storing anything in our contact lists that can not be found thru google or any other search engine. I mean a phone number you can get thru directory assistance and an email from any company webpage or just searching long enough on the internet. Storing the contact list seems like they were just trying to make our lives a little easier.
I have no issue with them looking onto the phone for my contact list as well lets face it it would be my friends and relatives. I think there was "a much ado about nothing" by some people who want to make a fuss. (probably a competiting app developer).
I have no issue with either doing the community as it was or a new way. To solve the issue easier put the app up for sale, let people know when they download it that the info is used to locate friends in the game.
Heck look at loopt it goes thru all your contact info and blasts you with multitude of texts that are like spam to find your friends online.
Just putting in my 2 cents, the game is great as is but if it must be changed no skin off my back
Dave
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tom27
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Post by tom27 on Jul 23, 2008 8:52:43 GMT -5
Hi everyone, hi Danielle,
to be honest, I am pretty much concerned about that so-called "community feature". First, let me say that I appreciate the way you are dealing with the issue - but on the other hand, it really should have been done upon release.
No one of us has any idea, how you are securing your servers and what really happens with all the data. Please remember that a lot of people use the iPhone for business affairs (and games are installed in order to have something to play with when sitting at the airport) - second, I think that even though I may not be concerned about you getting all my contacts, then probably somebody who is in my contacts list may well be concerned (and would have every right to). Also it really worries me, that maybe I am in somebodys contact list and without letting me know it, everything is just passed on to some unknown server... Not great!
And why are you storing "phone numbers"? I am pretty sure, that in no way you´d require this just to know who is playing, unless you try to indentify players somehow by using their mobile phone number/usage (which would ever scare me more).
Personally, I will delete your game from my iPhone and advise others to do so, unless this problem is solved. You are fantastic game developers, but with all respect, I cannot understand that you have simply "forgotten" to mention this feature or what it is doing. Since you needed to setup server space etc. I expect that you had to deal with a lot stuff regarding the community feature. So ... did it really just slip out of your mind two minutes before writing the release notes?
For future version, I strongly advise you to use a method with is very straight forward in terms of data security and letting people exactly know what is going on. Therefore I really do appreciate that Apple has pulled AF, because this at least shows that somebody cares about sensitive data on my iPhone.
Thanks Tom
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Post by seaotter on Jul 23, 2008 9:01:12 GMT -5
In the short term I'd suggest doing whatever is necessary to get the updated version of the game available in the app store. The benefits of the community feature aren't clear to me at the moment... but the bugs in the normal playable part of the game (some of the visual bugs, the unavailability of tools, ect...) are fairly obvious and getting them fixed (and making that fix available) should take priority over the long term plans for the community feature. That may mean disabling or removing the community in the short term and reimplementing it as time allows. Only the folks at Apple can tell you what the minimum acceptable change is to get the app back up in the store.
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